Thanks for the discussion. Just trying to understand, and you were helpful.

Trump is doing poorly in Utah because the LDS community largely sees how corrupt he is. That is why they are voting for McMullin. But your solution is to instead have them vote for another completely corrupt politician? This article makes no sense unless you completely ignore the vast amount of evidence of how corrupt Hillary is.

LDS conservatives are having a hard time voting for Trump. He is corrupt and the opposite of who we should vote for as a righteous leader. Trump has extremely low support among the LDS population. Good for LDS conservatives!

However, Hillary is just as bad and corrupt as Trump. Yet LDS democrats are supporting her. Too bad LDS democrats seem to be putting party ahead of moral judgement.

Very interesting.

For years, as a conservative, I and others have been complaining that the US is being driven toward socialism. Calling democrat leaders socialists, saying government regulations that are passed socialist in nature, etc.

During those years I was commonly dismissed as being somewhat silly for using the term socialism. Accused of not knowing what socialism is, assured that Democrats are not trying to implement socialism, that Americans would never allow socialism, that Obamacare has nothing to do with socialism, etc.

No, we are not there yet, but its hard to imagine that we are not well on our way to being there isn’t it?

2) I Think it is a bit of a stretch to use this quote as an example of the church Saying homosexuality should be a criminal offense. And it definitely doesn’t mention any official church position on legislating such.

3) I think you have sufficiently demonstrated that no quotes from general authorities, even if I was able to bring up some recent ones, would change your mind on any subject that you’ve already made a decision on.

4) would you be able to answer this question for me. Do you consider yourself a currently active member of the LDS church? Your answer to that question doesn’t disqualify you in this conversation as far as I’m concerned. It’s just that I have discussed this question with many who consider themselves former members, and I understand their reasoning about progressivism being what Jesus preached. What I am unclear on is the reasoning that a currently active Church member with a firm testimony would use to explain the discrepancy between progressivism and Church doctrine, specifically when it comes to government coercion. I was looking for that unique perspective from the author of this article since he classifies himself in the category of a strong and active member of the church. I wanted to know how someone would explain the apparent discrepancy, yet still believe and defend the prophets and apostles on this matter.

Thanks

Kristal, can you answer a question for me. When you mention that we have agency and “who are we to judge?”, are you taking into account direction by LDS leaders who specifically state that it is NOT ok to justify abortion because of agency. Specifically Dallin H Oaks talk entitled “The Weightier Matters” in which he discusses this in depth. One quote from that talk is in my previous post here. Can we say the same thing with someone who abuses children? “He has his free agency, who are we to judge?”

And we are asked all the time to judge. We just need to judge righteous judgments. Essentially, we can judge whether an action is evil or good, and whether we should fight against that action. We SHOULD judge abortion to be wrong and fight against it happening, we just should not make a judgement about a person that gets an abortion as to whether they will be condemned or not. Final judgments about a persons heart and worth are up to God only. Judgments about whether an action or organization is doing good or evil should be up to us, so that we can know whether we should be part of the action or organization, or if we should fight against it.

I would hate the same argument to be made about an group that is involved in human trafficing or sex slavery. Should we say “Well, I am personally against it, but we have to allow them their agency and not judge them.” Why is that argument OK in the case of abortion? We can stop someone from committing atrocities without making a final judgement about their worthiness in God’s eyes can we not?

“If we say we are anti-abortion in our personal life but pro-choice in public policy, we are saying that we will not use our influence to establish public policies that encourage righteous choices on matters God’s servants have defined as serious sins. I urge Latter-day Saints who have taken that position to ask themselves which other grievous sins should be decriminalized or smiled on by the law due to this theory that persons should not be hampered in their choices.
Similarly, some reach the pro-choice position by saying we should not legislate morality. Those who take this position should realize that the law of crimes legislates nothing but morality. Should we repeal all laws with a moral basis so that our government will not punish any choices some persons consider immoral? Such an action would wipe out virtually all of the laws against crimes.”
- Dallin H Oaks Ensign January 2001 “Weightier Matters”

Perhaps the greatest benefit of being LDS is having prophets and apostles that lead the Church and communicate God’s will to us. The LDS Church is a collection of people from vastly different backgrounds, situations, and personalities. This diversity is a very good thing, only as we unite in a common goal of “being one” with the will of God.

I cringe when I hear Mormon’s justify a position on abortion such as this when it so obviously goes against the teachings of those who lead the Church and speak for God.

Yes, there is a lot of disinformation about PP and what they do, but just because there is SOME disinformation out there does not excuse us from finding out what really is happening and what abortion really is doing to our society. If we want to know how we should treat abortion, those who perform abortions, and laws regarding abortion, we should be listening to the words of the prophets and apostles.